Mar 26, 2009

Testimony at Disk Golf in Leddy Park, Working Group, Public Forum

*to see the complete meeting, go to Ch17 website

To: Leddy Park Disk Golf Working Group

Mar. 24, 2009

Lea Terhune, Ward 4 NPA

Lack of Public Consensus. There is no clear community consensus regarding development within Leddy Park. During the process undertaken by the working group the group was advised by members of the Btown Disc Club and heard from a number of its membership advocating for development of a course within the park (Btowndisc.com). However the working group also received an outpouring of community sentiment in favor of protecting the woodlands in the park and/or opposing the development of a course in Leddy Park.

___________________________________________________________________-

Parks and Recreation Commission Meeting, minutes of July 15, 2008

Bob Whalen recommended conceptual approval
Club members asked to occupy “space that is not utilized”, using existing pathways, removing underbrush and saplings.
Hanson asked how this would affect people walking on trails (off the path)
Ewing asked if there would need to be a lot of clearing of trees (no)
Nolfi asked if there would be a lot of open spots (no, as well)
Allen asked if any neighborhood outreach has happened (currently in the process of doing some outreach)
Hanson/Ewing, motion to approve the concept

Conclusion: The Parks Commission never approved construction of the course, tree-cutting or any other pre-development site work. Parks Dept. acted without authorization, and in so doing they violated the public trust and probably the City Charter as well.

Jan, 12, 2009. Lisa Coven, Parks Dept. staff, to LPDG working group member.

. The group agreed to be responsible for taking information back to the public and acting as their liaisons. … . Group members are responsible for representing their wards/neighborhood that they were nominated from. … . I also expect members to report back to their NPA's and even Front Porch Forums.

Working group:

}Ward 3: Harry Wendt: harryjwendt@netzero.com (did not communicate with NPA)

}Ward 4: Pat Kearney: pgkearney@comcast.net (attended every Ward 4 NPA meeting)

} Joanne Hunt: joanne.hunt@comcast.net (attended Ward 4 NPA meetings)

} Matthew Hogg: mhogg@uvm.edu (did not attend NPA, or communicate with Ward 4 NPA)

}Ward 5: Nick Hinge: nick@hingevt.com (did not attend Ward 5 NPA, or communicate with NPA)

}Ward 7: Dan Herman: danh1@live.com (did not attend Ward 7 NPA, or communicate with NPA)

} Greg Jenkins: gregjenkins@burlingtontelecom.net (attended every Ward 7 NPA meeting)

Conclusion: The only representatives who had communication with their NPAs were Kearney, Hunt, and Jenkins. The other representatives did not communicate with their NPA, do represent their wards in any substantive way, and their votes should not count.

Ward 4/7 NPA Resolution, Feb. 19, 2009

~ Whereas the Parks and Recreation Commission has appointed a Disc Golf Working Group to evaluate the proposal for an 18-hole disc golf course at Leddy Park;

~ Whereas the Disc Golf Working Group has been charged to obtain input from the constituents who they represent;

~ Whereas the Chittenden County Forester, in a letter, dated September 22, 2008, stated, "…it would be hard to make a case that clearing the understory for disc golf (in Leddy Park) is consistent with maintaining long-term forest health or with the existing forest management plan.";

Now, therefore, be it resolved that:

The residents of Wards 4 and 7, as represented by their NPAs, are not supportive of a disc golf course in Leddy Park due to its adverse environmental impacts; and

The Disc Golf Working Group shall include this Resolution within the recommendations it makes to the Parks and Recreation Commission; and

The Parks and Recreation Commission shall direct the staff of the Parks and Recreation Department to work with the BTown Disc Golf Club to identify alternative sites for a disc golf course in Burlington, or surrounding communities.

The resolution was proposed by Nancy Powers and seconded by Michael Crane from Ward 4; proposed by Greg Jenkins and seconded by Phil Lavigne from Ward 7.

Ward 4: support the Resolution 42
oppose the Resolution 0
uncertain 12

Ward 7: support the Resolution 14
oppose the Resolution 0
uncertain 9

Recommendation to Parks Commission:

It is important to build consensus about new uses in a city park. Residents view the park as their own, and view the Parks Dept. as caretakers. Residents expect to be consulted, and we expect our opinions to be honored and respected. Some people may like to ride horses, or shoot skeet, but they shouldn’t have expectations that it is their right to locate their sport in Leddy Park. The attitude of entitlement on the part of B’town Disk Golf Club bothered people a lot. Leddy is a densely used park serving hundreds of families who walk to the park, and use the passive recreation trails in the park on a daily basis, 12 months of the year. Recommend NO BUILD -- disc golf course in Leddy Park.

Lea Terhune

Ward 4, NPA Steering Committee

Disc golf in Leddy Park? NO

Last meeting of the Disk Golf at Leddy Park Working Group , Ch17, streaming video.

The Question: Disk Golf at Leddy Park? YES with recommendations, or NO.

The vote was 3-3. By Robert's Rules, that is a NO. Parks staff said they were not using Robert's Rules, they were building consensus and would fall back on majority rule. So they named the vote tally a split and decided the group should send two spokespersons to the Parks Commission meeting on Apr. 28.

The group decided to continue the meeting to make recommendations even though the YES with recommendations choice did not win the vote, Recommendations were solicited from the working group -- about disk golf in Burlington, or the process of the decision by Parks Department, the formation of the working group, etc -- and they said they would send recommendations they all agreed on to the Parks Commission.

Meeting of Parks Commission -- April 28.

Meeting to review working group process: May 12

Mar 9, 2009

Hartnett Report to NPA Confirmed

from JULY 08 MINUTES, Parks Commission:

VIIB. Consideration of Proposal for Disc Golf Course Development

Whalen explained that other groups had come to him in the past and that the current group has definitely been the most persistent, committed and organized. He recommended that the Commission give conceptual approval of the proposal so that the club members can continue to develop details of the proposal and plan fundraising and implementation strategies.

The club members then introduced themselves and explained that disc golf has been around for 40 years, serves several different age populations and is a lot like golf but is played in natural areas. In addition the club explained that the sport offers healthy benefits for players as well as benefits to the community. The location is proposed at Leddy and will currently occupy space that is not utilized. The club proposes to use existing pathways where possible and generally only remove underbrush and saplings.

The club stated that they had hundreds of people interested in this project and have formed a non-profit and intend to raise $10,000. They said they were asking for approval of the project, but would appreciate input from the Commission and Department.

Hanson asked how this would affect people walking on the trails at Leddy and if a fee would be charged for players and was assured that people playing golf would not be directly on the trail but off the path and will also have out of bounds areas as well and there would be no fee to the City with the exception of some trash receptacles.

Ewing asked if there would need to be a lot of clearing of trees and was told very little and Nolfi asked if there were a lot of open spots and was told no as well.

Some concerns were raised about possible vandalism to the proposed project as well as some concern about college students and alcohol use/abuse and the club indicated that this has not been a problem at other facilities and they do not anticipate any at this location but would be mindful of these issues.

Allen asked if any neighborhood outreach has happened yet and also was concerned with too much signage and was told that they are currently in the process of doing some outreach and the signage would be minimal and they wanted to get further approval from the Commission before moving further.

Motion to approve the concept for a disc golf course. Hanson/Ewing. Motion carried.

COMMENT:

The July '08 Parks Commission minutes are what Dave Hartnett recollected when he spoke at our February NPA meeting. His report is confirmed by the PC minutes.

Some key points:

* "continue to develop details of the proposal and plan fundraising and implementation strategies" is NOT permission to start cutting trees to build the course!
* Passive recreation areas with trails (existing pathways) is not "space that is not utilized." "Hanson asked how this would affect people walking on the trails at Leddy" ?
* Friends of Leddy Park also has "hundreds of people interested in this project" -- opposed to it, that is, and they are taxpayers. Allen asks "if any neighborhood outreach has happened yet' and he is told by the disc golf club members that they are "currently in the process of doing some outreach." ??? People in the neighborhood learned of the project when trees were being clearcut in the park.
* Whalen recommended that the Commission give conceptual approval of the proposal so that the club members can continue to develop details of the proposal and plan fundraising and implementation strategies. Disc Golf Club members say they are asking for approval of the project, but would appreciate input. The commission gave good input, and voted to approve the concept. That was not permission to cut trees and begin construction.
* Ewing asks if there will be "a lot of clearing of trees and was told [no] very little" -- "generally only remove underbrush and saplings city proceeded to clear cut swaths for fairways." City proceeded to clearcut swaths for disc golf course fairways.
* Concerns about alcohol use/abuse-- this has not been a problem at other facilities -- a boldfaced lie. It is a common problem, as a simple internet search will confirm.

Well, it's easy to see that there was a disconnect between Parks Dept actions and Park Commission approval of concept. Dave said he expected club members would follow up on things like outreach to neighborhoods, and come back to discuss it further.

After reading these minutes, I think Parks Commission should have put a stop to this project immediately and required the disc golf club to begin the process anew. I think that anything other than that now is unacceptible.

Abbi sent the following instructions to the Working Group, including the disc golf technical advisors in the group: "I believe we can be successful in completing our stated goal of making recommendations to the Parks n Rec Commission." That is a classic case of the tail wagging the dog! Who's in charge here, anyway? Isn't the Parks Commission supposed to make decisions and recommendations to the Parks Dept?

Abbi also instructs the group regarding the outcome of their work, which was supposedly to evaluate information and vote "yes," "yes with recommendations," or "no" on construction of a dis golf course in Leddy Park:" I believe we can agree on some recommendations about how a project like this should be implemented," she writes. Source document: http://protectleddypark.blogspot.com/

Lea Terhune
Ward 4, NPA Steering Committee

Mar 8, 2009

Working Group vote:

NO, Yes with recommendations, or YES?

Abbi Jaffe 03/04/09 10:22 AM

Hello Leddy Park Disc Golf Working Group members,

We are in the final leg of our journey together. We have built a
great team and I believe we can be successful in completing our stated goal of making recommendations to the Parks n Rec Commission. I believe that we can reach some shared agreements and that we can find closure in our process.

Later today I am going on vacation, away from cell phones and email for 10 days. I want to give you some idea of what our last meeting could entail. I will continue to distill our process and find the best way to close our time together.

Our goal (the meeting facilitation team), before we meet again, is to get you the big picture of how this process will go after we make our recommendations. Specifically,

~ will disc golf be on the agenda of the next Parks n Rec Commission meeting?

~Will they be, when will they, or have they already decided anything about Disc Golf at Leddy Park? Disc Golf in Burlington in general?

~Who has the power to decide?

~Who has the last say? (Parks n Rec or City Council?)

~Will the Parks 'n Rec Commission automatically pass this over to City Council?

~Will City Council pass this issue over to the voters?

We don't know the answers, but we hope to reach some clarity before meeting again.

Homework: You (working group members and B-town Disc Golf advisers) came up with some homework that I think can be a helpful way for us to start our meeting together (after public comment). You assigned yourself with making a short statement about your opinion on this matter. You will have 2 minutes to share your thoughts about disc golf at Leddy Park, this process, or public process in general. Yes, I will 'beep' when your 2 min are up.

This group was charged with responding to the issues brought up by the public about Disc Golf at Leddy Park and making recommendations to the Parks n Rec Commission. This group has thought deeply about the issues. If the project gets approval then we will have wanted to have had our say. I believe we can agree on some recommendations about how a project like this should be implemented.

Homework: Go through the past meeting minutes. Review the recommendations/suggestions that we have brainstormed. At our next meeting we will have a brainstorm session where you can choose to bring those recommendations forward, or come up with other recommendations. The rest of that hour will be spent looking for the recommendations we can all agree on.

Just a DRAFT Agenda

-Meeting Set-Up: (review minutes, hear back from B-town Disc Golf... agree on agenda)
-Public Comment: Only 15 minutes will be allowed for public comment.
-2 Min Working Group Statements: you will have 2 min to share your opinion
-Agree on recommendations should disc golf get passed at Leddy Park (we will submit this to the Parks n Rec Commission)
-Vote on yes, no, yes with our recommendations
-Agree on recommendations about the future of this process
-Agree on recommendations about the future of public process
-Close meeting

You have been a great group to work with. I know we can have a successful last meeting. Lisa/Warren and I will be in touch with you the week of March 16th.

Thank you,
Abbi

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OPEN LETTER TO BTOWN DISC GOLF CLUB

By Rob Lowe, Woodlawn Rd, rob@817pine.com
Sat, 11 April 2009

Hey BTown Disc Golf Club,

I'm a New North Ender. I live on Woodlawn Road, which is about a five minute walk from the outskirts of Leddy Park. I'm fairly active. I play disc sports in the Burlington area.

I like to think of myself as open-minded. I haven't taken a side of the debate about whether a disc golf course should be built in Leddy Park in Burlington. Both sides of the debate have valid points.

Those who advocate for a disc golf course, including your organization, point out that there's a lot of under-utilized space in Leddy Park. They also correctly state that Burlington parks belong to all residents of Burlington, not just those of us who live in the New North End.

Those who do not support a disc golf course in Leddy Park voice concerns about the environmental impacts of course clearing, disc tossing, and refuse. They also raise issues that an eighteen-hole course will use most of the remaining woodlands inside the park.

Today, we received a flyer from Btown Disc Golf Club outlining your proposal for a disc golf course in Leddy Park. The flyer also contains a section titled "Who is the Opposition". Within that section, you mention "a disingenuous smear campaign filled with half-truths and red herrings" against your proposal. You mention that it "appears that opponents of disc golf have taken a page straight from George Bush and Karl Rove's playbook". You tie these quotes to "a small group of Leddy Park neighbors who feel this beautiful city park belongs solely to them".

Your flyer takes the tone of pitting the rest of Burlington against our neighborhoods in the New North End. Your use of Bush and Rove in your flyer smacks of political baiting in a city that does not need any more of a "five wards versus two" mentality. We're not all not-in-my-backyard obstructionists in the New North End. Some New North Enders don't support disc golf in Leddy Park, but there's not one of us who is fighting to keep the rest of Burlington out of Leddy Park.

While both sides of the debate have criticized the other side on its point of view, this is the first instance of a personal attack that I've seen by either side. I'm not impressed by it at all. Burlington residents aren't swayed to one side or another of any debate by name-calling. Give us all more credit than that.

I'm not saying that I'm against disc golf in Leddy Park. However, after the attack laid out in today's flyer, I definitely will not support any bid for disc golf put out by Btown Disc Golf, whether in Leddy Park or any other public land within the city of Burlington.

Sincerely,
Rob Lowe
Burlington

Aerial Maps of WALKING TRAILS and Proposed Disc Golf course in Leddy Park

'Woodlands are unused spaces; there's plenty of room for a disc golf course,' says the B'Town Disc Golf Club.

Disc Golf, or walking trails? You be the judge.

The narrow lines on the aerial maps on are woodland walking paths, paths that residents currently use daily, 12 months of the year. The thick blue line is the paved road from Noprth Ave to the ice arena parking lot. The numbers 1-18 and thick white areas in the aerial photo on the right are fairways on the course, originally designed by B'Town Disc Golf Club. Trees have already been cut there!

The red dots on both maps represent a statistically probable impact area [purple] where the disc shaped projectiles fly during play. Any living thing in the red dot purple-shaded area is at risk -- including people, pets, wildlife and trees.

Many of the woodland paths, and the bikepath, pass through red-dot projectile impact areas.

Overlay Mapping of Disc Flight Trajectories

To create a map of the area of the park affected by the proposed disc golf course, the Statistical Model of Boy Scout Disc Golf Skills by Steve West was applied to the course proposed by the BTown Disc Golf Club. This statistical model can be found in the Documents section of LeddyPark.org ....

Methodology First the disc throw patterns from the model were taken from the document and scaled so that they are accurately sized in relation to the original BTown map. The 150 foot mark on the map and in the document patterns was used as a reference for sizing. The patterns were colored red so that they would show up well on the map....

May Karma Crap on Your Doorstep

DOG WASTE ISSUE?
By Brendan Bush, Leddy Park Disc Golf Working Group - Ward 5, Catherine St, fpf@brendanbush.com
Mon, 01 June 2009

to the owner of the dog who left a giant steaming pile of mess in my newly planted front yard garden today: may karma crap on your doorstep.

to the respectful dog owners who, like me, bag the waste their dog creates: thank you for keeping our neighborhood (and our lake) clean. -Brendan
_________________________________

To Brendan [proponent of disc golf in Leddy Park]: crap in your garden IS Karma, your karma. Leddy Park is to many residents what your front yard garden is to you. Time will tell. If you have trees in your yard, or a path from across your yard where you walk from your house to a neighbor's home, a microburst could come out of nowhere, with no public notice, and cut down your trees, or a neighbor kid could break a window with a frisbee or hit you in the head as you are walking on your path.

Now, if the crap in the garden were a dream image, I'd say it represents the crap that Btown piled on the Parks Commission and the Parks Department, as well as on our neighborhoods.

Three Mayoral Candidates Say No Disc Golf Course in Leddy Park

Are you in favor of building a disc golf course in Leddy Park?

Kurt Wright - NO
Andy Montroll - NO
Bob Kiss - NO (from btown dg website: At a later candidate forum, Bob Kiss appeared to change his stance on the proposed disc golf course in Leddy Park, saying he supports Disc Golf in Leddy Park on a trial basis.)

When the question was asked at the Seven Days Forum, it was phrased differently at first -- 18 hole disc golf course in NNE? This led Dan Smith to say YES, and Kurt Wright to answer UNCERTAIN. When "as proposed" and "Leddy Park" were added to the question, Andy Montroll and Bob Kiss said NO.

Now that more appropriate sites are known, and strong Ward 4 opposition is spreading to other wards in the city due to the objectionable process and forest protection issues, candidates are in general agreement that this is either a bad idea, bad process, or both.

LEDDY PARK USE: SEPT. 18, 22, 23

If you object to the process by which the Parks & Recreation Commission made a decision to start construction of a disc golf course in Leddy Park, come to the Ward 4 and Ward 7 Neighborhood Planning Assembly meeting on Sept. 18 (Heineberg Center, sign-in at 6:45 pm). Open Government is on the agenda, and Nancy Powers has secured time for residents to address the process by which the city made the disc golf course decision.

"The Open Government Committee Report" is also on the agenda of the City Council meeting on Sept 22 (7 pm, Contois Auditorium). That's a good time to talk directly with the Council about your concerns about disc golf in Leddy Park, both the process and the decision. The City Council has oversight of the Parks & Rec. Commission.

QUESTIONS and COMMENTS

1. Does anyone know how many acres of public trust urban forest have been committed for this one activity? I believe this is more than a baseball and football field combined. The 18 hole Waterbury course which I have played numerous times seems to me about 10 acres or so. It is made interesting to play by the hazards it contains: rock outcroppings, varying elevations, water hazards, meadow, bog. As I see it the only hazard in Leddy Park are the trees. According to btown's course design it looks like the course takes up all the urban forest in the park.

2. Does anyone know the long term effect/impact the weighted discs will have on the trees per hole? The same trees will constantly be hit/nicked by the hard disc edges over and over again often in the same places, much like a fiberglass hatchett. An urban disc course will attract a large amount of traffic. The only hazard to play around or thru are the trees.

3. A fitness trail with workout stations along it would not have anywhere near this impact and is available for all people to use including people with disabilities. For example, the pull up/chin up station has three different bars set at different levels--low, medium, high. The disc golf course is a major usurping of the last piece of level urban forest park public trust land for a single activity and would make such a fitness trail more difficult to create because of all the flying discs. Also the other funny thing about this is: we're talking about disc golf...why do you need 18 holes? This is an activity not a sport. This is not real golf where I'm sure there is some arcane reason. Why do they need 18 holes for disc golf? What is that about?

toilets, alcohol, butts

MORE DISC GOLF CONCERNS
By Bob Hill, Oakcrest Dr, skihill@gmail.com
Tue, 16 September 2008

1. Toilets: Even if the toilets at Leddy are left open, will people walk the distance while in the middle of their round to access them? There playing partners will wait? Doubt it.

2. Will alcohol and other substances be used during play? yes.

Leddy has not been supervised all summer. Free parking and no supervision has led to increased litter etc. on the beach. The beach has been gross all summer for lack of a better term. I would not bring my kids there. Disc golf will increase usage greatly. There will be more litter, more dog droppings left, public urination, substance use, cigarette butts, etc. This is a bad idea that has not been thought through.

Competing Uses

I used the link to the Btown Disc Golf Club site. A friend sent me an aerial photo with the 18 holes superimposed on nearly every corner of the wooded areas of Leddy Park. I generally am more pro-development than most Vermonters. However here we are talking about dedicated parkland and wooded areas that serve to provide an escape from our urban life as well as refreshing breezes and the cooling canopy that wooded areas provide in the summer season. I will admit I use the wooded areas nearer my home more but if I were to live close to Leddy Park and enjoy walks in the woods there, I would be strongly opposed to this development. I do bicycle through the wooded areas at Leddy Park on my way to the shopping center, weather permitting. Chuck Niles' photos of wooded areas in Leddy Park on the Btown Disc Golf web site convince me that this forested acreage should be preserved for more passive activities - hiking, dog walking, even running - which do not require tree clearance.

Thus, I would like to register my opposition to this project, in support of the neighbors close by who use it regularly, and of the future senior citizens housing, as I would want their support if the wooded areas near to my home at Northshore were treatened with partial tree clearing. I believe that disc golf will be a trend for a while and then fade out of popularity. To accommodate it by clearing golf links lanes will forever change the character of Leddy Park.

Ecological, Natural community Perspective

I am in total agreement with the posting by Sue Brooks
to FPF on Sept 12 against the proposed 18-hole disc golf course at Leddy Park. On Sept 4th, Angele Court (Lakewood Estates) wrote a letter in opposition to the disc golf course as well. A neighbor of mine has recommended that they completely move holes (#13-15) running east-west in the woods abutting both Lakewood Estates and Leonard Street neighborhoods. I personally think they should move holes
(#11-15) out of that forested-area.

I am total opposition to this 18-hole disc course, and will do what I can to stop further development of this course in the woods of Leddy Park. I would like to see them move out of Leddy Park completely and go to some more open agricultural area in the city of Burlington where they wont have so much
detrimental impact upon the forested natural community of the park.

I am a natural historian and ecologist by profession and have a great knowledge base in regards to birds, herbaceous plants, understory trees, forested communities, wildlife habitat and so forth. I will be doing my part from an ecological, natural community perspective to halt further cutting of holes in the woods of Leddy Park.

SERIOUS DESIGN CONCERNS

I have played disc golf for over ten years on Vermont courses in Waterbury, Cabot, Bolton, and Sugarbush, as well as in Houston, TX. and Atlanta, GA. I have walked the planned course at Leddy Park and think it will be a beautiful course to play on and become quite popular.

However, I have several serious concerns about the design of this course because it does not take into account pedestrian safety.

My strongest concern is at hole #18 next to the lakeshore. (See map at:
http://www.btowndisc.com/i/newmap.jpg) That area is a beautiful overlook of
the lake. It also has a popular beach below it. If an errant throw sends a very hard plastic golf disc over the edge it suddenly gains 25 feet of altitude. This means it will fly farther and drop faster. The disc could seriously injure a sunbather on the beach below. I find this unacceptable and believe the #18 area is best left as it is for everyone to enjoy.

My second concern is the Trail through the woods on the south side of the park. Holes #11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 run up and down both sides of the Trail, so essentially the Trail will become part of the disc golf course. Just looking at the Trail tells you it has a large history of use. It is the safest alternative to walking on the road, and offers a sense of solitude (now partially destroyed from cutting). The trail will become very unsafe for an unwary pedestrian. I personally use it four times a week to run, bike, ski, and walk with my family. But I would never take my two-year-old boy through the middle of a disc golf course! Loosing the use of this Trail is too large a sacrifice for my family. And I am surprised the Parks department finds it OK to loose this important pedestrian corridor.

I propose the course be redesigned and move holes #13, 14, 15, and 18 to different locations. There is room in the woods north of the softball fields. There are no major pedestrian paths in there. A lot of the dead wood on the ground could be removed, which has been building to a fire hazard. And this is also the area where I see homeless encampments in the fall. I
believe this would preserve the Trail through the south woods so that everyone can continue using and enjoying it.

When I first heard about the golf course I was very excited. I can walk to it from my house and enjoy even more of Leddy Park. I have signed up with other volunteers to help build it, and can't wait to play with friends, family, and neighbors.

But for me the sacrifice of loosing the south side Trail is to high. So I encourage my neighbors and other park users to take an hour of your time and attend the meeting Wednesday night at 7PM in the Leddy Park Arena. I look forward to hearing what the B-Town Disc Golf Club and the Parks Department have to say about this wonderful recreational opportunity.

Please voice your support for a Disc Golf Course that is safe and preserves the use of an important Trail through Leddy Park.

Go see for Yourself

Hi folks, this is my response to the FPF from Parks & Rec, I grew up on a dairy farm, I'm not a trained Arborist, but I sure know the difference between brush, sapling, and a tree! In a direct respond to Melissa Young from Parks and Rec. I have several examples of what our city Arborist Warren Spinner thinks is underbrush. I have the pictures, and have some cuttings left behind, this is not minimal impact(and this is just hole number one). They have cut a 30 foot wide path through one of the few remaining parts of our city that is wooded. I will gladly share my pictures, and the cuttings are at the foot of my driveway. I would encourage people to go look for themselves. If you go to to Leddy Park Arena and take a short walk to the NW part of woods, the destruction is there to see.

Greg Jenkins

How does this fit in with the big picture?

I just walked the whole park to see the clearing that is been done. It is interesting. My perspective will be different then some. I know a lot about clearing woods to make healthy trees. I have worked with the county foresters in Addison County on my personal land. Some/most of the disc holes still have a full canopy. I definitely think giving the disc golf members a chance to present is a good thing. The process and the master plan for the park is what I am concerned about. How does this fit in with the big picture?

Not a Good Idea

This is not a minimal impact sport, go to Waterbury and take a look at the shape of that park, it is tired, it is worn. The Leddy Park course runs up and down the park, and is only 40' ft wide, true; but how do you control a disk, you can't make it stay in the lane. It will go where is it mis-thrown. I have thrown these disks, they are not Frisbees that you play catch with, they will do some serious damage when they strike
something, like a person! Finally, I don't wish to get bogged down in the details of what is classified as a sapling, but I have parts of trees that were cut down, and they are more than 3" in diameter. Please do some basic research, don't just listen to the officials that are in charge, I'm no reporter, but I talked, and met with an avid disk golf player so that I could try to understand if this is something that would be good for this mixed use park; I have concluded that it is not a
great idea to have an 18 hole course. Greg Jenkins

Neither For Nor Against

I just want to be clear that I'm neither for or against the development of this use in the park. I feel that if processes are in place for neighborhood input and they weren't followed (permitting, NPA approvals, etc. etc.) then the project should pause and gather the appropriate responses / documents / etc.

If there aren't clear procedures for developing or re-purposing city owned land that falls under the jurisdiction of Parks and Rec - then I feel that for the benefits of the disc club and Parks and Rec that this should move forward through the proper channels.

If the NPA feels that there should be a better method for this - then I think the NPA, Parks and Rec, and the city should investigate a way to make this process more transparent - for the next development that should occur.

The softballers and other sports @ Leddy have opportunities - I believe that the disc golfers should have a chance as well. We're not threatening to pull out the backstops and bases and plant more trees... it seems if folks want to take a stand on our 'wild areas' we should be looking at the big picture. And from what I know, disc golf is fairly low impact, doesn't require extensive maintanance, and is a quiet activity enjoyed by small groups.

OTHER INITIATIVES

To sign a petition, -- There is a copy at the end of the Comments and Questions List on this webpage. Or contact contact Ron McGarvey, RMCGAR864@aol.com .

To endorse the Neighborhood Planning Assembly resolution, attend the NPA meeting on Thursday, September 18, 6:45 pm, at the Heineberg Club. The subject of this meeting is Open Government. Agenda.

To express your ideas and opinions, go to Front Porch Forum .

The issues will be discussed at City Council meeting on Sept. 22, 7pm, Contois Auditorium, City Hall; and at the Parks Commission Meeting on Sept. 23. 5 pm. Location? Call City Clerk's Office -- 865-7000.

LEDDY PARK - WHAT ABOUT MY NEST?~